I've been an Amazon.com Associate since the beginning. I'm not sure when they started their program, but it's been over ten years that I've promoted Amazon's products and services.
Imagine my surprise when I received an email from Andrea, an Associates Account Specialist (is that for people who can't get jobs with the post office? I'm kidding.. relax...), that informed me my account was being closed.
First of all, let me say this.
I am huge fan of Amazon, spend tons of money there and will continue to do so. I'm not shedding any tears.
But there are lessons to be learned here. Shall we discuss?
So here's the email I received...
Greetings from the Amazon.com Associates Program.While reviewing your account, we found you are offering customers a "4-Part Social Media Workshop - Valued at $297.00" by purchasing a copy of the book "Twitter Power" from Amazon.com through your Associate links and forwarding confirmation of this order. We have also found that you are still offering customers "Over $6972 Worth Of Bonuses" by purchasing a copy of the book "The AdSense Code" from Amazon.com through your Associate links on the site www.theadsensecode.com. We have also found that you are framing the Amazon.com site with some of your twitpwr.com URLs.
Please note, per the Operating Agreement:
4. Referral Fees you may not:
(a) directly or indirectly offer any person or entity any consideration or incentive (including, without limitation, payment of money (including any rebate), or granting of any discount or other benefit) for using Special Links on your site to access our site (e.g., by implementing any "rewards" program for persons or entities who use Special Links on your site to access our site).In order to keep the Associates Program viable for the long-term, we've concluded that we cannot continue our Association with incentive-oriented sites and your account has therefore been closed. In addition, because you are using the Associates Program in ways in which it was never intended, you will not receive payment. Please edit your twitpwr.com so that they are no longer framing the Amazon.com site.
We hope you're able to make other arrangements for your visitors and thank you again for considering Amazon.com for your needs.
Best regards,
Andrea - Associates Account Specialist
http://www.amazon.com
Of course, the email is sent from a no-reply@amazon.com address, giving you no option to reply and appeal.
The bottom line is they don't want associates incentivizing purchases.
Why not? Doesn't that mean MORE sales for you?
Hey Jeff Bezos! I'm selling tons of Twitter Power books for you. Whats the dealio, bubba?
Fine. They have their terms of service, so they cut me off.
Then they take the opportunity to tell me that they aren't going to pay me for GOOD sales.
We're not talking about paying commissions on returned product or bad orders. I'm saying that they owe me $1000 or so and they have decided to keep the change.
Fine. It's not about the money. It's pocket change.
It's the principle.
Why shouldn't I be paid on all the OTHER items I sold for Amazon?
Take a look at this list...
I didn't incentivize purchases for apparel, or all those other books.
Nor did I incentivize purchases for DVD, electronics, groceries or hundreds of other items.
Doesn't matter. Amazon is keeping it all.
On some level I understand what they are trying to do. They don't want people to buy because of an incentive. That can lead to order cancellation as soon as the order is placed. There could be more refunds as a result.
On another level, they are probably concerned about people not making good on their incentives and Amazon gets the blame. "But I saw where I get a free Learjet if I buy a DVD from your site. It says so right there on the website."
A simple boilerplate email could be send to people who issue these types of complaints. They are the same people that still think AOL is the Internet.
Anyhow, here's where their thinking is flawed.
Companies offer trial offers for products all the time, providing incentives for people to sign up. "Get a free month of our magazine", "Get 30,000 frequent flier miles when you apply for our credit card", and the list goes on.
They KNOW a certain number of them are going to cancel, but they are banking on a number of them staying with the offer. Why wouldn't you want to make more sales?
The idea is to get product into people's hands!
Don't like incentives, Amazon?
How about these incentives you offer on your own site?
Rebates, discounts, special offers... all incentives for the purpose of driving more sales.
Ok, listen up Amazon. I'm going to give you a piece of advice that can increase your bottom line exponentially. I hope you are listening.
Allow (and ENCOURAGE) associates to incentivize sales! Your associate program has languished without any signs of innovation for YEARS. Your commissions are paltry and its no wonder that most affiliates don't touch your program any more. It doesn't PAY well.
Instead of flagging people for offering a bonus, why not focus on those who become a problem?
How do you know a problem associate? They have a ridiculous number of returns! It's that simple!
So, set a target for what a normal number of returns would be, and if an associate crosses that threshold, you flag their account. I believe you can program a computer to do that for you. It wouldn't be difficult. Trust me on this.
It would be far wiser and more productive than slapping a good associate on the hand, shutting down an account and pocketing the change.
For now, you have chosen the path of least resistance. Forget the fact that you've been an associate for years. Forget the fact that you've sent tens of thousands of dollars in sales. And forget that we owe you money. We're keeping it. Na-na-na-na-na-naaaah.
It's ok, Amazon. I still love you for your two-day delivery.
It's Del.icio.us!
Furl It!
April 23, 2009 06:38 PM
This is all buerocratical bullshit. Big companies think they are all stars...just like Google with their AdSense program. They can shut you down and give no reason. Do they look at your appeals? Probably not...
How can you help it if someone repeatedly clicks ads on your site?
April 23, 2009 06:43 PM
Looking at the big picture I guess it is their loss rather than yours.
I once had my e-bay account shutdown for no reason. At least they gave me an opportunity to be reinstated.
Sucks how they take all the commissions rather than just the ones related to your incentivized stuff.
April 23, 2009 06:47 PM
That is total B.S. They are already dropping the ability to link directly from Adwords at the end of the month. Has their growth gone to their heads --- forgetting that it was the little guys that got them there????
Follow me on Twitter @ricardoclarke
April 23, 2009 06:53 PM
WOW, thats very draconian of them, and ridiculous. Reminds me to go to amazon and check out their terms of service. Pocket maybe but the point is you earned theyre obligated to pay it out.
April 23, 2009 07:03 PM
Hey Joel,
First off, I'm sorry that happened to you. That really stinks.
Second, I'm glad you've blogged about it here. If they think it's a smart business decision to do that to someone who has brought them the level of sales you've brought them (both as an affiliate and as an author), then it's time I switched out a lot of links. I've been thinking about it because I can get paid more through many other web sites, and have delayed only because of the time it will take to switch out links.
At best, it's questionable that they keep your commissions. At worst, it's simple outright theft. Especially since they did it without offering you the opportunity to correct it.
I'll be responding to this post with my virtual feet and pointing my links elsewhere for better affiliate commissions, and apparently for a much better affiliate relationship.
I hope your post will inspire others to do the same. Perhaps Amazon will see some light when their associates network dwindles to nil... but that may be their goal anyway.
Thanks again for the post, and again, sorry this happened.
Warmest,
Jonathan
April 23, 2009 07:11 PM
I agree with what you're saying. I do find it interesting they didn't bother to contact you before shutting down your account. I also think that not paying you for past sales in an instance such as this speaks very poorly towards their treatment of affiliates. Unfortunately, with the size that amazon is, they most likely just let their "associates" run a muck and probably don't spend any time researching you or your account history to determine if it was just an oversight on your part or something nefarious. The fact that they don't offer a method for you to follow-up with them is very poor customer service, basically implying that you not only did something wrong but that you knew it and shouldn't be surprised. After all, it was buried in their User Agreement. :)
2 day shipping is nice.
April 23, 2009 07:15 PM
ClickBank just implemented the same policy...
Amazon barely has what anyone could argue is an Affiliate program and if I could find an online bookstore that had a better program, I'd move all my links in a heartbeat.
April 23, 2009 07:16 PM
This is great Joel. I can definitely see your frustration. Yet another problem with bureaucracy. I guess "common sense" doesn't fit within their model. Catch up with the times already! Great advice to them. I hope, for their sake, they read it.
April 23, 2009 07:19 PM
I promote Amazon products, and it's very lucrative. So I dunno why you consider it paltry. By Lucrative I mean 15-20k/mo. It's not my main focus, but it's a nice amount of money on the side.
Does it say in the TOS that they have the right to suspend/freeze/seize funds from someone breaking the TOS? If it does, then you shouldn't have broken the TOS.. That simple.
Although I agree with you on the fact their affiliate program needs a face lift. I know I could increase my conversions easily.
April 23, 2009 07:33 PM
We also got our account closed for something similar. After years being an associate and no "Second-Chance" at least because we sell thousands if not a million per year. I think is not fair. Anyways, we owe them too and we are keeping them as well NAHH NAHH NAHH!
April 23, 2009 08:35 PM
Ok... so you got me interested... where do I get that offer that used to be an incentive on Amazon.com?
April 23, 2009 09:04 PM
Hi Joel,
Thanks for letting all the world know. I think Amazon has reached the tipping point - I mean the negative tipping point - just like other mega corporations. My guess is, in a few years they will become another also-ran online company hiding behind rules, regulations, fine print, no-reply emails, 1-800 operators, etc. Do you think GM/Chrysler would have thought about today's situation even before couple of years? I think it is matter of time before another bunch of innovative companies come up to replace Amazon. I had bought tons of stuff from them and used Amazon as a prime case study! It is sad to see the symptoms of decay for a (once) great organization.
April 23, 2009 09:42 PM
Amazon is big-headed and crazy to close your associate account.
Digital Products Center offers various types of rebates, discounts, etc to attract buyers. Returns rate is low - about 1%.
If Amazon wants to close my associate account too, go ahead!
April 23, 2009 10:20 PM
Not really sure they will be missing out on much given the huge jump in earnings last quarter from their announcement tonight. Amazon will continue to grow with or without affiliates as know one can come close to their service right now.
April 23, 2009 10:34 PM
It would be interesting to see what Amazon's reply(if they ever see & care to reply) to this would be. Keep us updated on this Joel.
April 24, 2009 06:30 AM
The guidelines from Amazon appear as black and white as Adsense telling us never click on your own ads.
Thanks for sharing Joel. It serves as a reminder that there must be "law enforcement" on the INTERNET.
April 24, 2009 10:23 AM
What are the chances that Andrea is a bot ? Terminating one of their top sales because of some AI programming flaws. Just curious.
April 25, 2009 02:26 AM
This is simply not the way to do business. There should have been contact before cancellation. Any non associated sales should have been paid out. I'm interested what other affiliate programs people suggest? Currently I'm also a member of commission junction? (Sony's program).
How about Zappos? They have a very different corporate culture than Amazon. They also sell more than shoes :)
April 25, 2009 02:31 PM
This is scary. I just purchased your book AdSense code. I am starting to use AdSense on our web-site. However, I am concern of all the negative comments I have been reading lately from different sites. Is it still worth it?
April 25, 2009 02:47 PM
LOL !
What morons ...
however, here's a sattelite spy pic of Andrea :
http://five4all.com/profile/Andrea_from_amazoncom.jpg
And here is my unpredictible reaction to "amazon vs joel" issue :
http://five4all.com/amazon-stinks-move-on/
April 26, 2009 08:51 PM
Joel, my guess is that, just as with Facebook, you may see a change of heart at Amazon after having written this post :) But even if they don't change their mind, I appreciate the way you have posted your strong opinion while continuing to say nice things about them. Keep us posted, and there should be some Amazon reps on twitter, so you might want to start twittering at them about all this!
April 28, 2009 02:54 PM
Hey JC, you really come across as arrogant as hell in this post ya know?
I like that!
Either way, you broke the rules, you lose.
AL
April 28, 2009 08:28 PM
Thank you for sharing this shocking story with us, Joel.
I can definitely relate to that.
Unfortunately, just like you I've also had similar devastating experiences with other Internet Supergiants in the past, including eBay, Google and Paypal - just to name a few.
The pattern seems to be the same every time: they wait until you become their strong affiliate and start bringing them a significant cashflow.
Then, totally out of the blue and without any warning, they shut down your account and keep all your commissions.
I know exactly how painful it feels at first. You feel betrayed, you feel like you've been had! You feel helpless...
Guess what?! You feel exactly the way THEY want you to feel - like a criminal!
I've been saying this for years - "Either YOU have a SYSTEM, or the SYSTEM will have YOU! Period."
Unfortunately, it's not about you, Joel.
Unfortunately, all of THEIR systems are set up that way.
THEY want to be GOD. They want to have the right to decide who they pat on their back and who they slap on the wrist.
It has ALWAYS been that way. I've been thinking long and hard about that, and I came to the conclusion that the problem lies much deeper than we think. The problem is much more profound than we think - regardless of how good WE are, and how much money we think we make for THEM.
It's the Business Model problem, Joel.
And the affiliate model is not that strong - just come and see for yourself:
http://www.slideshare.net/secret/gC17oDARqNAxIi
May 2, 2009 08:48 AM
If Amazon rules don't allow incentives, they should have sent you a warning first. This way you could correct it. Just dropping you without warning isn't fair, but it seems some big business' act this way.
May 2, 2009 11:36 PM
OMG, Mad world
May 8, 2009 02:14 AM
Wow, I guess Amazon messed with the wrong guy. And yeap, noreply emails are really a turn off.
May 13, 2009 12:05 AM
The deal is money is not everything. You IM guys need to think outside of the $$$ planet sometimes. Poor guys. You show your frustration calling someone a bad name, but who are you? The incredible wonderful great marvelous invincible man? I doubt.
May 19, 2009 10:55 PM
Hey Joel this is somewhat of the same thing that happened to me with Google Adsense. I'm a very good SEO always stay whitehat but if i wanted too can turn on my black hat and slice and dice. Google banned me from their program as a threat to advertisers. Re-submitted 3 times no response. 6% click through rate over $600 in 2 weeks. Many pages.
Companies that are big need to interact with customers more, and for you probably one of there top percentile performers. Lets get real. With all the CRM tools out today and all new tech, there should be more personal responses here. Lets get away from the 1990 no-reply crap. Reminds me of companies who stay in beta so theres no tech support.
May 22, 2009 01:28 PM
Wow! I can believe they did that Joel. It just seems so completely idiotic of them! They can expect a huge drop in book sales on launch days...
Does Barn & Noble have the same terms?
May 24, 2009 02:18 AM
Ebay shut me down because a friend of mine wanted an item I was selling and I told him to bid like everyone else, so he did. They found out he knew me, did not investigate the situation, called it shill bidding and shut down all my auctions. I learned to never market auctions to anyone you remotely know and to monitor all your bidders names to make sure you don't know them and if you do, to cancel their bids immediately.
Websites like ebay and Amazon think they are gods and can do anything they want in their commerce. If I ran my business like they ran their businesses, I'd be out of business.
Not to worry. The internet changes every day and if they want to fight the future, they will go the way of AOL. AOL thought they were gods. Whose still paying them $29.95 a month today?
June 4, 2009 11:32 PM
i would be interesting to see what Amazon's reply(if they ever see & care to reply) to this would be.I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it's not about the individual but it can be with everyone.
Parking Sensor
June 4, 2009 11:38 PM
I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it's not about the individual but it can be with everyone.
Parking Sensor
June 5, 2009 08:01 PM
Thanks for the news. I will stop incenting my customers to send money to Amazon! Sorry Amazon and by extension, Jeff, but you asked for it. Wouldn't it be interesting if a large group of Amazon affiliates just stoped sending them traffic for a while?
June 11, 2009 01:01 PM
Same story always happens to me.. So affiliate marketing really is not so good for me as it is presented at sites like opportunity.com (John Reese new project).. Last time DreamHost block my account for strange reason with more then 500$ of my commission for valued customers I refer to them.. Same old song..
For amazon - may be they thought that people whom amazon had refer by there marketing team directly without any ref. links, will search internet for special offers for items that this people had chosen to buy at amazon - and will buy them from referral links (like yours) - not directly from amazon site without any referral ids. So amazon don't want to pay commissions in such cases.
September 6, 2009 02:24 PM
Yea, Amazon did the same to me and other sellers. Please email amazonclassaction@yahoo.com if anyone is interested in a class action lawsuit against the company. Got a lawyer in mind but would like more people.
Also, what are your thoughts about small claims court and Amazon? Anyone done that yet?
September 14, 2009 06:01 PM
I am a small time Amazon Affiliate and detest what they are doing. It would be nice if all small affiliates would band together and boycott Amazon for just a week to see what impact we really have on their sales volume. I'd like to say for a month but I'm sure, at this time and the economy the way it is, even 1 week would be difficult to abide by.
Open to others thoughts on how we can get the attention of Jeff Bezos @ Amazon.
What's next if we don't take a stand for ourselves now?
Perhaps proving we have enough traffic to our sites before they will allow us to become associates. God I hope not.
Warm Regards and Merry Christmas Jeff Bezos.
~Jim Zak~
September 14, 2009 08:25 PM
During my book launch, I planned this - and Warren Whitlock pointed out this limitation.
He told me: "Please note that if you offer ANY bonuses... even a free newsletter. Amazon will shut down your associate account within hours of launch."
So I changed the link from my affiliate link to a DIRECT sales link to Amazon.com
If those are the rules, we have to pick one choice - to play by them, or walk out of the game!
As far as I understand it, there is no problem with incentivizing sales of your own book, as long as you're not promoting it through your AFFILIATE link!
The problem likely happened because affiliates did NOT live up to their outrageous bonus promises, after buyers ordered - and then blamed Amazon.com for the deficiency. Understandable when you have thousands of affiliates, not all of them ethical.
Just a different perspective, Joel, and one I believe you should have mentioned in your blog post itself, for balance and objectivity.
I understand your angst about the 'good sales', though. Oh, well!
All success
Dr.Mani